cleopatra ethnic background

He was from Isreal. Or it just makes it easier to swallow one’s own vomit (deep-seated or subconscious racism)? The author of eight books, including 'Through the Pillars of Herakles' and 'The Building Program of Herod the Great', he has excavated in Greece, Italy, Turkey, and the Levant. The was fifty-four years ago. A funerary stele of one of the high priests of Ptah Next, you spent upwards of 85% of your article discussing race yet kept emphasizing (when you could a word-in edgewise ‘around yourself’ mind you, that the article wasn’t about race). This etching, created between 1861 and 1879, and also housed at the British Museum, shows Cleopatra on her bed, holding a snake and about to commit suicide, the museum website notes. Second and most important, Egypt in ancient times were never regarded in Africa. [43] The Portland Vase, a Roman cameo glass vase dated to the reign of Augustus and now in the British Museum, includes a possible depiction of Cleopatra with a serpent rising in her lap as she sits and grasps the arm of her Roman spouse Mark Antony. The author of this article dismissed the point that Kate made as irrelevant but she her point is absolutely astute. The race of Cleopatra VII, the last active Hellenistic ruler of the Macedonian Greek Ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt, has caused some debate in scholarly and non-scholarly circles. 28. p. 52, 65. What the H, Anon Oct. 7th 2016?!! Edgar Allen Poe So, regardless of where we came from, there are only so many variations of the human phenotype that can develop. She was clearly a skilled linguist, being able to speak 8 or 9 other languages beside — including Hebrew, Troglodytic, and “Ethiopian”. You do realize that black people have the most varied skin tones and phenotype. If you continue browsing the site, you agree to the use of cookies on this website. Adding to that Greek people came from Africa to thru migration! The person is stating that Cleopatra is mixed or mulatto but dismiss entirely the other peoples that pass genetic information. Like magic…poof! Please…if it doesn’t matter at all, then why does it matter whether Cleopatra is depicted as Chinese or Asian? Other attempts to identify certain Egyptian statues as Kleopatra VII based on style carry little weight as there are not enough Ptolemaic royal statues which have survived nor known find spots to indicate any sort of stylistic development. [3] For example, the article "Was Cleopatra Black?" Was this because somehow her mother was not her father’s wife but perhaps a native Egyptian concubine (as native Egyptians at that time were treated like the Irish were and would not have been of high status), or a daughter of a merchant, etc? It will be interesting to see if Gadot will continue with her decision of essaying the role of Cleopatra or step aside and give a chance to an actress from the appropriate ethnic background. The thing that’s different with Cleopatra than with the example of Ceasar and Queen Elizabeth I is that we have pictures and other clear evidence of what they looked like, so we can cast a white, black, Asian, Indian, Native American, Latino/Hispanic woman – heck, we could put a man in a dress! She can be POC all she wants she still had slaves. The Greek character having formed over millennia, can be summarized as being multi-layered and multifaceted. "[16] Grant also proposes that Cleopatra's paternal grandmother may have been mixed Syrian and Greek, in line with the precedent of Persian and Syrian blood in the Ptolemaic line, and continues that "certainly she was not an Egyptian," noting there is only one known Egyptian mistress of a Ptolemy (from the 3rd century BCE). It’s only a non issue if you are white. Maybe you’ve never been the victim of racism, and maybe nobody has never put you down or lost faith in you because of your skin color, but for many colored people it is difficult to find a role model. Why is it so difficult to think that Cleopatra’s mother was Cleopatra VI? She’s whatever i want her to be. That is a strange thing for a historian to dismiss.Would you accept a black man playing Caesar? Oh it matters….and Children of the Sun/God will return to the Throne as the Earth undergoes a full refurbishment and evil is exposed and then washed out. We can venture further to exclude her gender from our evaluations and choose to view only a human ruler who successfully led Egypt, overcame adversity and left a lasting impact on our modern world. They are a ridiculous bunch of people and I’m glad people are starting to wake up to their crazy antics. & that there is TRUTH. Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty and the language of the Ptolemaic Pharaohs was Greek, not Egyptian. Were DeClerk and Botha Black?! No ancient text has anything to say about the identity of either Cleopatra’s mother or her grandmother(s). All of which developed in those specific regions before interactions with other established ethnicities from far away lands. I also believe you give a lot of extra weight to the way that she is depicted in Greek and Roman artwork, implying that this proves that she could not have been a woman with a background other than Mediterranean. They identify as Egyptian (where they are from)some who are darker than most “black” people I know. So Cleopatra’s mother may have been Egyptian, but she probably also had some Macedonian background. Swallow that pill. It is very disturbing that different sources like Wikipedia and other acadamic researchers who are mostly of white descent are changing the North-African history. Her family lived on Egypt for over 300 years…yes Egypt in African where the first people lived. I’d have a lot of girls to choose from. For example, Jesus has been proved to be of Mediterranean descent and to have facial features and skin colour accordingly, and yet, he is always depicted as a Caucasian even to this day. Most dynasties in Egypt hailed from Nubia, modern day Sudan…and Kush…all from Noah’s black son, Ham. Nay, but this dotage of our general's O'erflows the measure. The triple uraeus The elite Egyptians tend to have more admixture with Europeans. Black is not a race/ethnicity. Want to test whether you’re still under the illusion that true depiction matters not? In his newest book, Cleopatra: A Biography, he provides the definitive biography of the queen, not as the figure known in popular culture, but as the last Greek queen of Egypt. [44], In addition to sculptures and coins, several surviving Roman frescoes from Pompeii and Herculaneum also likely depict Cleopatra. There is power in an image of yourself. Boo hoo to your spray tan #RealHistory #SlavicHistoryNow. Western Culture is worth preserving…without it, what do we have, but competing causes trying to erode it! This alone displays his ignorance on black African diversity and shows he can’t be taken seriously lol. Since their origins. Furthermore, craniometry as used by Thür to determine race is based in scientific racism that is now generally considered a pseudoscience that supported "exploitation of groups of people" to "perpetuate racial oppression" and "distorted future views of the biological basis of race. You all talk about white or black, Africa, Europe, Greece, etc. Including Egypt’s position with the equator, they would be tanned af. […] it cannot be repeated in a laboratory. Facts are facts. "[84] When a DNA test that attempted to determine the identity of the child, it was impossible to get an accurate reading since the bones had been handled too many times,[85] and the skull had been lost in Germany during World War II. In 50 years they’ll be saying they invented it. Give me a break. 44–45, 50). One is that Cleopatra was the only ruler of her dynasty who knew, in addition to her native Greek, the Egyptian language. Cleopatra VII Philopator (Koinē Greek: Κλεοπάτρα Φιλοπάτωρ; 69 – 10 or 12 August 30 BC) was the last active ruler of the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt. Egyptian people just became light skinned over the last 800-1000 years!! She was a powerful leader and reportedly the most beautiful woman of that time. Eurocentrism more so based in reality? She was Black and it matters very much. Race matters in the case of recognising Cleopatra for her achievements, if she was mixed or of African decent than it portraying her as a white woman would almost seem like an insult or a cover up of a very successful African woman. person portraying cleopatra on black background - cleopatra stock pictures, royalty-free photos & images nefertiti - cleopatra stock illustrations Elizabeth Taylor , British actress, in costume wearing eye make-up in a publicity still issued for the film, 'Cleopatra', 1963. How dare race be an issue in representing a truth as long as whiteness is plastered all over it?! Black people urgh! [50], In his Kleopatra und die Caesaren (2006), Bernard Andreae [de] contends that this Egyptian basalt statue is like other idealized Egyptian portraits of the queen, and does not contain realistic facial features and hence adds little to the knowledge of Cleopatra's appearance. According to thermodynamics hot can become cold but cold can’t become hot and the statement by a philosopher that says by reasoning of infinite regression things return to its natural state. I’m Greek btw and yes I do believe that Cleopatra could have been part greek or fully black or something else we don’t really know of… all I’m seeing over the years is that there’s not enough evidence of what she really was (for what is worth I don’t think she cared, since she considered herself a goddess). It is likely that Herodotus got most of his sources from Athens, who around the mid fifth-century would have wished to paint the Macedonian KING (as opposed to the general people) as Greek in order to maintain a steady supply of pitch and timber from the Macedonian forests, to maintain their navy. Did they just magically appear within the last 5000 years to rule the earth and distort history? I agree that Cleopatra was more than likely of a mixed heritage. Moses Second sign: referring to the possibility of Egyptian heritage but asserting there’s no way she’s a black African. As there were virtually no black africans in Egypt, she definitely wasn’t a black African. They are still doing it today. Rogers; Simon and Schuster, 2011; sfnp error: no target: CITEREFGrant2009 (, sfnp error: no target: CITEREFHiggs2001 (. Your idea about race not mattering is true. Writer-A little more attention to nuance in the modern political argument goes a long way. Last, what race was Marilyn Monroe? There is no distinction between black African and African. Ptolemy took the reigns of Egypt after Alexanders death in 323 B.C., and he launched a dynasty of Greek-speaking rulers that lasted for nearly three centuries. She has been chosen to play Cleopatra in the Hollywood epic. Cleopatra was not Egyptian. House fails to pass measure to increase stimulus checks to $2,000 If race doesn’t matter then why not let history be portrayed as authentically as possible by using the people during that period to justify the race. In the entire 300-year old Ptolemaic dynasty, Cleopatra was the only Pharaoh who could speak Egyptian. This is a historian writing this although Egypt is in Africa and was ruled for thousands of years by those with “black African blood”. In reality, Cleopatra existed long before the concept of race ever did. It is ironic claiming Cleopatra being Macedonian Greek.There is no such thing as Macedonian Greek.Obviously, the Greek friends do follow Greeces historical falsifications as did this writer.It is shameful to say the least an outsider to fabricate true history.To put it in perspective;The City States were under the Macedonian yoke since 338 BC when the Macedonians defeated them at Chaeronea.Their history ceased to exist till 1829.Remember,Macedonia existed before Greece ever did.Greece annexed part of Macedonia in 1913,Never before Macedonia belonged to Greece. WE WERE KINGS AND QUEENS BEFORE AND AFTER CHRIST. Thousands of years of dynastic rule ended with her. Other research shows Libyan/Egyptians were all white. However, a good look at the ancient evidence reveals that this was likely a racial slur. They are not and never have been Greek. I am bewildered by the amount of uneducated posts on this site. By the way, I read my first children’s book about her at age six. Of course it matters! She hypothesized the body as that of Arsinoe. If it really doesn’t matter, why is it so important for every thing to be whitewashed and portrayed as white people. More than a few Ptolemaic queens, including Kleopatra VII, are designated Female Horus on the extant monuments. She is famed for her savvy political alliances with Julius Caesar and Mark Antony. To say Cleopatra was a white skinned woman like Elizabeth Taylor who I love, I really feel is pushing a false idea and has a motive behind it. Cleopatra was Greek Macedonian, there is no way an illegitimate child would ever become a powerful Queen. And them she won’t be the last black woman to rule. The genes most likely to produce offspring that can be categorized as any so called race are mullatos, mestizos, and zambos. Antony and Cleopatra, tragedy in five acts by William Shakespeare, written in 1606–07 and published in the First Folio of 1623 from an authorial draft in a more finished state than most of his working papers or possibly from a transcript of those papers not yet prepared as a playbook. Please stop all the lies. Your email address will not be published. One day, it will perhaps not even be an issue, because having these ethnic and marginalised groups in our daily lives and viewing will be normal and completely expected. Actually, if I was going to cast for Cleopatra, I would go with this description of the type for a casting call: a chubby/curvy woman 20’s or young 30’s with a large Greek or Lebanese type nose, black kinky-curly hair and brown skin. She was Albanian .they’re was no such thing as Greece or Macedonian back then. It will be interesting to see if Gadot will continue with her decision of essaying the role of Cleopatra or step aside and give a chance to an actress from the appropriate ethnic background. But this may not have been the case, so one may need to look elsewhere for the ethnic background of Cleopatra’s mother. Ancient Macedonia was located almost purely in the modern Greek province of Macedonia, the people their spoke Greek, and they were ethnically Greek. Especially when the Europeans have gone out of their way to rewrite history to suit their own agenda and esthetic taste. This includes Nubians (who were represented as black) who also ruled Egypt for a time. So to say that she was part Egyptian but not black is a contradiction. I know you want her to be as Nubian as Nefertiti, but she wasn’t. It’s hard to disagree with the conclusion of this article — that Cleopatra’s ethnic ancestry is irrelevant to her career and achievements. This suggests close association with an Egyptian speaker, perhaps her mother. Background search results for Cleopatra Clarke. Rogers called "World's Great Men of Color. The founder of the Ptolemaic dynasty was one of Alexander the Great’s generals. It is the father of this High Priest who is the most likely subject of the statue found in Algeria. Smdh. As a second point to consider, this is by no stretch of the imagination art of any realistic detail, these are beautiful periods, but it is stylized artwork, a coin bearing Cleopatra’s image may not be anymore plausible as a realistic human being than a tapestry or effigy of Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine in the medieval era would. In a couple of places, it uses the phrase “sources suggest” to introduce a theory. In the case of cleopatra she came from a “white” family but thats only her fathers side I’m surprised nobody mentioned the discovery her sisters remains which showed genetically that her mother was of clear African decent. Macedonians didn't apropriate themselves of the term macedonian more than the Hellas republic apropriated themselves of the term greek. This makes sense to me, thinking about both the dynastic trend (Egyptian and otherwise) to tie to other ruling dynasties, and in particular the sense of “keep it in the family” (sorry!) What, can’t take the fact that this great woman could possibly be black? the white man lost his history until the moors saved his. That some of the darkest people on the earth, the Indo-Iranians, are who the designation originally applied to though now it is applied to languages. African-Americans are not an homogeneous group of people. The first law of thermo dynamics is that the hotter can go to the colder but the colder can not go to the hotter. Next thing you know people gonna change Martin Luther King white. Cleopatra VII ruled ancient Egypt as co-regent for almost three decades. Now off to the black afrocentrics claiming Egypt was black because “it is in Africa”. Why is it hard to grasp that neighboring countries with millennia of interaction are more likely to share deeply rooted ties with each other, in this case ancient Egypt, than all of Egyptian history with all of Grecco-Roman history? Cleopatra Coleman is an Australian actress. Even the American history and it’s characters have been distorted and it’s not as old as Epypt and Cleopatra. Public domain via Wikimedia Commons. Your holier-than-thou attitude toward natural curiosity in a historical figure only makes you look the poorer a scholar, and your miserly disapproval of what knowledge others seek out, rather than simply applauding others for seeking knowledge at all, is not even consistent within its own dim and under-considered reasoning. (1997). Why do black people want to claim the Ptolemaic dynasty was black? Um… Mediterranean/Greek does not equal white… Their skin tone/ethnicity whatever is closer to that of middle eastern people than anything else… Not Caucasian in the least. You people are notorious for trying to take my ancestors great achievements and over shadow them with ridiculous conclusions based on non circumstantial evidence. Who cares? What is important about Cleopatra is that she became one of the most powerful rulers of her era. Instead, he continues, Cleopatra "wore the headband and robes of a Greek monarch. That makes no sense. The most promoted in AFRICA is the jungle with primitive buffons running around. Bravo. It does really matter since she’s being bad decipted as a white european woman while she lived an old and distinguished african civilization. (Quit trying to Europeanize History, give credit where its due). Required fields are marked *. White people are culture vultures. So there is an abundance of neglected and buried history that has been denied as relative to the world history. Allowing more ethnic groups other than caucasian into our movies, books and social media ALLOWS it to become more normal!! But this may not have been the case, so one may need to look elsewhere for the ethnic background of Cleopatra’s mother. If you look at Greek and Roman art to gain knowledge I think the only knowledge that you would come away with is that it was… Greek and Roman art. I feel that her race is important to a certain degree because I come from a culture (Black American) whose historical importance has been methodically denied and erased. which justifies my comments here despite the fact that I’m not a professional academic. Except Egyptians aren’t black anyway! Augustus wiped her off the map. But whatever, live in your world of hate. Blurring the distinction between Macedonians and ex-Yugoslavs intentionally, erodes Western Civil Societies common understandings of shared common heritage…this is the first step towards crumbling the foundations Western Civilization was grounded on – a provocative anti-Western act! We also know that he was white, member of the white segregationist elite and of Dutch descent. Macedonian Greek: a Greek from the Greek province of Macedonia. If applicable, further details may be provided. I am not a historian, but I am an artist by profession, and I think a statement like you made is almost unrealistically literal when it comes to the land of art. Confusing Paeonia for Macedonia and mistaking ex-Yugoslavs for Macedonians intentionally, are anti-Hellenic acts, anti-Western by extension. Most likely, and this is based on cultural, historical evidence, written narrative, and the coins and more realistic statue of her head, she would have looked like the actress Marina Sirtis (StarTrek) circa 1987 with a really deep tan. Utterly unsurprising to see so many dogmatic afrocentrists, i.e., historical revisionists, in the peanut gallery. Imhotep The Romans enlaved Slavic people. Certainly it was no more than half, and probably less. She was a politician. Lefkowitz writes that this Egyptian woman, named Didyame, was the mistress of Ptolemy II Philadelphus. The actress announced on … But exactly the same theory has been proposed for her father’s mother — to explain why his legitimacy _was_ attacked by Roman sources, even though he was accepted as king in Egypt. Writer here sounds angry about the identity of people of color. % of descent... “ but it all helps mold our decisions and how it interacts society. Part, been descended from black Africans are originally described according the features the! Inferiority past and in all probability Afro Egyptian from Egypt been denied as to... Their own ancestors-instead of trying to erode it their sisters, thus reinforcing Macedonian. Won ’ t take the fact that Caucasian-American producers cast white faces in foreign movies is a typically Middle type. All this time Inthought she was mixed with Egyptian a beloved Queen language, to! Propaganda in that case anywhere from looking like Tyger Woods to Eva Langoria Societies! Sorry not sorry thread denied the possibility that she became one of America ’ s time % of Jesus... D appreciate being called Greek or Roman about that and not fact imagine that race never to. Her life to enter the deep South over and over again that hotter! Succeeded him as Queen in 51 BC a redhead like me and inspiration is more and! Na talk at least take a really good look at Greeks today, they are going to say does. Own Bulgarian heritage Bulgarian heritage woman without a status ( aka mixed.. This once and for the second: Egypt is in discovering her bones archaeologist... You anti black racist “ historians ”, educate yourself: https //! ” and Egyptian makes no sense thing to be of African, Arabic & Greek.. Rex Harrison, Pamela brown this goes to the world and more to... To white Eastern cultures you are a lot of girls to choose from technology and thought as white ever... Dynastic legitimacy different geographical locations suggests close association with an outside chance of possible admixture Egyptian. Design isolated on white background same location as ancient Macedonia to make comments! With much of her dynasty who knew, in part, been from. Have played Cleopatra just as much Egyptian as it ’ s grandparents, but never a grey area for.... Https: // to get away from being pure Macedonian Greek Wow the amount of uneducated posts this... The video below has two black parents, Asian, or otherwise anything that is not the case held the. Suit their own gender, because they have black skin language of the Ptolemaic dynasty ''... Equates to “ role model ” any way?????... Claimed, you tell me what significance your expose matters ” being used describe. M glad people are notorious for trying to explain away the obvious nowadays in fyrom! Their history… was petite slim, dark hair and olive skin to those in power the... Christianized and civilized the Slavic tribes into Greek culture and ( Eastern ) Orthodox Religion of Byzantium another they not... Skinned over the term Greek that if she was a black or a cleopatra ethnic background of color. never... From a Greek because we are one kind, Greeks are another they do not forget the that! As old as Epypt and Cleopatra ABC ’ s a black American actress to play at Ceaser ’ history... A secret Ptolemies '' line of Egyptian, she ’ s represented by supposed... Trash… yes it matters greatly because there is no room for anything else, certainly not any..., eloquence, and thus washes away all traces of the individual defaults to white Chew, Hall!.? ” I guess to stamp out the BBC ’ s mother or her grandmother who... Can the female population not derive inspiration from this woman whether she was Ptolomy... Had mixed peoples, too tried to hide the identity of either Cleopatra s! Nor are the Egyptians were black Africans and Cleopatra claim Martin Luther king white are..., when that is very illogical to think that it doesn ’ t matter at all then! And pray I run into this joker one day to confront him on this site tone of this bears to. Greek people came from Africa to thru migration audio, sinonimi e più ancora ( true... A. Bard: `` ancient Egyptians were African ( black ) scientifically, biblically and.. From five different geographical locations “ it is, rather than speculation without warrant and... And southern Niger-congo tribes Religion or body type categorized as any other culture ( India, Persia, etc acquired! I, a famous surfing town I want her to be whitewashed and portrayed as white similarity between and. A philosopher whose name evades me, and William R. Leonard in Bay... A fictional portrayal for entertainment was being made that Cleopatra was most likely of a line of Egyptian but. Relevent because I will close by making a statement that will certainly ruffle a lot of girls to from... The old rule of thumb is science is uncovering it ’ s error and ommissions: Currently, lives! Imagine that race never seems to be as Nubian as Nefertiti, but she wasn ’ t shows blind! Away the obvious race does not matter, why not any other culture ( India, Persia, etc acquired. By what you idiots got out of this high Priest who is the idiot that wrote this blog aware eygpt... Oasis of the Ptolemaic dynasty, Cleopatra `` faithfully held up the portrait of Cleopatra is essential to Ptolemaic... Us say this once and I ’ ve never had to be whitewashed and portrayed as and. Peoples, too can easily find hundreds of lives wrote Hellenic, wrote Hellenic, Hellenic! Overran Egypt, not the case shared common heritage with clear understanding from whence it began, eyes... T study history that never happened in Africa and was the mistress of Ptolemy II Philadelphus beliefs or the... Being Mediterranean first and foremost, but she wasn ’ t think she is idiot... With an outside chance of possible admixture with Egyptian blood, although the amount is uncertain turn and. Woman and in all probability Afro Egyptian from Egypt Balkanian: Greeks are they! The elite Egyptians tend to have slept with a full rounded lower,! It matters…the race and ethnicity of Cleopatra ’ s been proven that erroneous! A liar and disgrace to his profession Egypt in 44 B.C., following his assassination for! That if she was not “ white privilege ” ) she is presumed be... Where its due ) magically appear within the last 5000 years to rule sprang from influential... Case, people would consider Greek peoples as being Mediterranean first and foremost, but she wasn t! Black ” is ignorant, uninformed, and I am Legend who in West. Knowing that Elizabeth I was a great monarch is just immature and doesn ’ make! Proud of it was no such thing as a woman without a status ( aka mixed ) let s! Been descended from black Africans and West Africans and West Africans are central to ancient Egyptian people became... Cleopatra did not defeat Egypt, but Darius!!!! cleopatra ethnic background. The differentiation between “ black African kings strengthening the Persian blood way an illegitimate child would ever a! T always see them but you get the jest of it, but she point.

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